I believe the blueing to be original. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. Askins Ithaca 10-gauge double with 2 7/8-inch chambers averaged 86.9% with 1 5/8-ounces of shot. The slide lock is automatically released by the forward nudge of recoil in the Model 12. I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. It is, somehow, not easy to avoid shoving shells wrong end first into ones gun. The Olins bought Winchester for $8.1 million through a combination of $3.3 million cash and the balance in an issue of preferred stock. Built from 1912 to 1963. Standard Grade: 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauge; plain, solid or ventilated rib round barrels; standard lengths 26", 28", 30", 32"; plain walnut pistol-grip stock; grooved slide handle. Keep in mind that all of these changes in stock design were running changes and thus some overlapping of designs occurred in production. Modified choke. I don't believe their ever was a royalty, actually Simmons kept selling his special vent rib model 12's after the 1955 introduction of the Winchester Special Vent Rib @ New Haven. The new 1935-style buttstock featured a closer and fuller pistol grip. Only rib extensions of the same width as the factory ventilate drib are found on receivers of duck guns. Chamber marked 3", choke marked full, and 14 1/2" LOP. The barrel is stamped "WS 1" with 2 3/4, ****SOLD******Mfg 1956, 30" 2-Pin Vent Rib, Full, B-Carved Wood, 13 3/4" Lop to Winchester Pad, Wood shows some handling marks Nothing Bad, 90-95% Blue, Shiney Bore, Buyer pays 60.00 shippin. I sold 41 model 12's and 21's at a gun auction in Wichita Kansas to accommodate the move. The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. In 1960, length of pull was increased to 13-3/4 inches on duck guns. An 80% pattern they felt should make it a real 60-yard outfit with No. Checkered stocks and extension slide handles were available as options on the standard grade throughout most of the duck guns production. custom bolt act. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. He worked with another Winchester researcher. 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. Since you in Kansas; ever deal with now deceased Felix Bedlan @ Fairbury, Neb. winchester model 12 heavy duck gun 30" simmons vent rib 1953 pre-64 rare 12 ga. magnum 3" edition proof marking - 12 gauge magnum - 5 - 30 " Blue Book on this fine collector 12 gauge is around $2,700! The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. The Model 12 shotgun, initially the Model 1912, hit the market in August 1912. Serial numbers match on barrel and receiver. I am anxious to get it back from the engraver. Total production reached two million. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. An offset proof mark will boost the value compared to an aftermarket rib. But it would be my guess that the wood has been refinished and the gun has been reblued. 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. The Model 21 double seemed the reasonable choice for Winchesters duck gun. However, the gun for which Johnson is best remembered is his Model 12 pump-action shotgun, The Perfect Repeater.. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. Dolphin, I agree with you until the part where you imply that Model 12s were sent to Simmons for ribs and then sent back to Winchester to sell. When I dress Western, nothing beats the classic good looks of my Smith & Wesson (S&W) 586 .357 revolver. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. the ventilated rib is by simmons gin works. Herbert Houze summarizes the Watrous report in his book Winchester Repeating Arms Company, Its History & Development from 1865 to 1981. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. . The point is the model 12 evolved. The lead slug added weight but more importantly maintained the balance point at the takedown joint. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. Ducks Unlimited was born in 1937 to aid in restoration of wetland breeding areas, primarily in Canada. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. The load averaged 67.5% (range 62-72.5%), in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. I included #2 shot because this size shot has always been my goose and turkey load in 3-inch shells. Winchester cautiously claimed 70 to 75% pattern in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.. Can you help me out? prior written consent of the Copyright holder. And, as WRACO states, Simmons installed Model 12 ribbed guns were sold by Simmons, not Winchester. Keith stated in 1967: The old 70% standard is now obsolete and most any full choke gun will go 75% or better. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. becouse plain barrels shoot higher than solid ribs do ,solid ribs shoot flatter. Simmons vent rib installed. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. so recall pads helped and they offerd hydro coil-stocks. It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. 12 Gauge, This is a very nice Winchester Model 12 Trap pump action shotgun in 12 gauge. Winchester installed Simmons ribs and Simmons-designed ventilated ribs for several years. Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge (W9229) Price: $3,250.00 Item Number: W9229 Previously sold Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge shotgun. But they must pass our way to clear! In 1963, when production ended, Riffles book shows no options available. Ernie Simmons had a close relationship with Winchester & John Olin; if you find any NSSA ,ATA, Field & Stream and Sports Afield magazines pre-war and post war you'll find he sold plenty of Winchesters out of his gun shop and attended many shoots selling target guns. I have owned a Pigeon grade model 12 trap Dounut vent rib, built late 1955, now that's an oddity, who would order a Pigeon Trap with a Dounut Rib (?) a post would have spent 281.5 hours trying to correct off handed remarks as a expert about winchester model 12's & 42's. I put one of those BIG soft foam risers on the comb and shot it that way for years. All Rights Reserved, Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun 30" Simmons Vent Rib 1953 Pre 64 Rare 12 Ga. Magnum 3" Edition Proof Marking. From its debut until the end of the 1950's, the Winchester Model 1912 was the pump shotgun, long known as "the perfect repeater." the store. The first was helping the gunsmiths. President Roosevelt signed the law limiting magazine repeaters to three shells for migratory game bird hunting in 1935. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. Now I have never been wrong about anything in my lifeLOLjust kidding, but the way I read it on the top of page 109JMHOThanks, WC. Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. The duck gun made in 1952 has a Simmons ventilated rib. The late style stock featured a flared pistol grip moved back a bit from the trigger. According to my source your Model 12 Winchester was made in 1924, so it is 89 years old. A forum community dedicated to Trap shooting enthusiasts. The original "Old milled rib" was developed by Winchester in the 1920's- but like so many of the older quality features, post WW11 competition by Remington and Ithaca made Olin-Winchester more "cost concerned"-- Many Model 12's were equipped with Simmons ribs afterwards, some were sent to New Haven by Simmons, and some Model 12's (and others . I used to club trap targets with it. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. The rib wasn't offered until 1954 according to the Dave Riffle Model 12 book so it wasn't originally produced at the Winchester Factory. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. I was glad to see this as I know for a fact that while many weren't done, they did indeed do some. It has a Simmons rib, which is not out of the question for Winchester to have used according to Maddis in his book of the model 12's. The metal finish is superior to a field grade gun, higher polish and a matted receiver top and magazine tube. This percentage was disappointing compared to the 80% or better patterns obtained with other duck guns tested by the staff. Great communications. bolt act. The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 5d 7h 6m 17240921. Winchester symbol # G1285S. Free shipping for many products! For specifics on Copyright Law and
Helping out a person with 3378 posts who if they spent 5min. H. Lea Lawrence relates in his 2001 GUN DIGEST article, The Saga of Bo Whoop, that in 1921 John Olin sent Buckingham his personal heavy double, a custom-choked Super Fox, for testing. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. There is some difference in what they say but are good reference. This Model 12 has Serial Number 1391884 was produced in 1953. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? "SN:561491. Thanks for all the info,my Grandfather died when I was in 12th grade in 1971 and I now have his field grade Mod.12 and 9 others love them all.I also have my Great Grandfathers Mod.97. Bob Hinman, in his 1972 GUN DIGEST article Ten Cents a Duck, notes that Shooting for the market was at one time a way of life for thousands of Americas skilled shotgunners.. His Super Fox 12 gauge magnum double averaged 83.7% (two-barrel average) of 1 3/8ounces of shot under the same conditions. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. The earliest gun they found with a 2-pin rib has a serial number of 2037xx with a date of June 30th, 1919. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 13 1/8" LOP. George Madis indicates in his book The Winchester Model Twelve that about 18,000 Model 12 duck guns were sold during the 1935-1941 period. Charles Askins was the leading expert on shotguns in the first half of the last century. A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. Mechanically excellent. The committee appointed to study the requirements for continuing business reported a successful reorganization would require the raising of a substantial amount of new capital. That capital was supplied by the Olin family of Olin Industries, owners of Western Cartridge Company. I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. The trap load was included because trap shooting is suited to the duck gun. 1934 skeet grade offerd. Model 42s with donut post ribs, no Simmons markings, proof marks in the right places, in the proper serial number range, are considered to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. I have often wondered how well my guns would pattern with modern ammunition. Both guns averaged 80% or better patterns with all loads of #4 shot. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. The Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun Proved Itself a Shooter, Colt No Longer Exclusive Owner of M4 Rifle, Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey & Tactical Review: Shotgun Shangri-La, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Fossari CRX9 Sporting Over/Under, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Browning Citori High Grade 50th Anniversary, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. We have a
And our
I RATE THE BLUING AT 98% AND THE WOOD AT 96+%. 2. Skeet gun marked "2 7/8" chamber skeet 28 gauge. The 3-inch shell was chambered originally in the famous Super Fox long-range double. If it's a 12 gauge, replacement factory butt stocks can be hard to come by. be complicated. Duck guns always sold for a slight premium over the standard model. That way, were helping small businesses in
It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. Charles Askins provides data for the patterning of several of his personal shotguns with Westerns Super X shells loaded with their new #4 copper-plated shot. My name is Chuck 620 515 0556. . Mechanically, the Model 12 duck gun differs little in design from the standard Model 12. organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your
Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? Winchester Model 12 with checkered forearm (slide handle) b'. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. In fact, Madis states Any twelve gauge Model Twelve could be re-chambered and reworked to shoot three inch shells for a small additional charge[by Winchester], yet few guns were reworked in this way. I can find no external differences in receiver dimensions, other than the ejection port, between standard and magnum versions. 4 chilled shot.. Stadt's book is a very good book that alot of people don't seem to know about. Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. The Olins used the Western ammunition plant at East Alton, Illinois, as collateral for borrowing about four million in cash, no small feat in the fall of 1931. ONLY ONE EVER PRODUCED BY WINCHESTER, ULIMATE RARITY. Learn how your comment data is processed. An incredible collector grade limited production 1953 Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN SIMMONS VENT RIB that is offered below Blue Book value. Whether you're looking for a truck gun, something for the bug out bag, or a do-anything firearm we have you covered. There are currently no customer product questions on this lot. For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. Riffle's excellent reference book on the Model 12 notes the 1919 patent date for the two-pin rib, but suggests that the rib was not on the market until 1920. The gun looked to be in excellent condition except some nitwit had inlayed a white plastic diamond in the stock at some point. Range was 40 yards from gun muzzle to target frame. Wood is in very good condition showing very little handling or wear marks. The straighter stock reduced perceived recoil. Ithaca brought out their Magnum 10double to use the new shell. SN is 167xx, all numbers do match. It won't be a collector but a shooter and should draw some attention. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed.